Curse

Kali Ma · Jul 13, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I completely understand your frustration. Here's a few tips, on top of the ones already posted, that helped me out back when I was experiencing a similar problem...

- Post a LFG message like, "Doing mission/bonus with henchmen - anybody else interested?" In my experience, the players who do respond or that are open to taking henches are usually worth grouping with.

- If starting a group yourself, fill some slots with henches first. If someone joins and makes a stink about them, simply say it isn't going to work after all and kick them.

With both of the above situations, I'm using henches as filter. There are times that I've had to go in alone, and times that I've ended up with a full group of real players, or been invited into a group. Once I was invited into a Guild's group who was taking henches in the remaining slots, and ended up being invited to join the guild after the mission.

- The type of player one encounters can change depending on the time of day. There tends to be a more mature crowd late at night.

- If you see a "Mesmer LFG..." or a LFM message from Mesmer, invite/join them. Every mesmer I've grouped with was either a pretty good player or fun to have along. And a group that already has a mesmer will likely be an open minded one. This isn't a steadfast rule of course, but it's what I've noticed.

- When joining a group or starting one, be very communicative before going in, like say hello and ask lots of questions (relevant ones of course). If they get annoyed by that or simply ignore you, just leave or kick them.

Good luck!

sinican · Jul 13, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

Are you mad! That way GW will be infected with trial noobs.

Are you mad?

little high and mighty aren't we... oh sorry u must be one them folks who skipped pasted being a new player...

players make this game without players the game wouldnt exist...

get over yourself..

get real tire of attitudes like yours... part of the reason many players dont have an enjoyable experience in a game...

your statements make you an ignorant newb

*Brush*

Silent Kitty · Jul 13, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

Are you mad! That way GW will be infected with trial noobs.

And they all will stay in pre-sear forever. I don't see the problem here.

eudas · Jul 13, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

elona reach is better with players but with a bit of practice you could probably get through it with henchies. henchies tend to slow down your pace just a bit as you have to control them more and elona reach is timed, so youll need to practice at being efficient about it so as to make it inside the 30 min timeline.

dunes i think is probably the easiest crystal desert mission to complete with henchies as all you have to do is fight to the pedestal, defend a few minutes, and then wait around while the timer passes by.

thirsty river i think would be the most difficult to do with henchies; i usually do it with mostly PUGs, but you can do it supported by henchies if your group isn't *too* bad.

anyway, to the OP: look me up in-game if you'd like some help.

eudas

sinican · Jul 13, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Kitty

And they all will stay in pre-sear forever. I don't see the problem here.

good call...

exactly enough to get them attached to GW and away from the high and mighties...

Ken Dei · Jul 13, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miyamoto Tzu

Not to be a contrarian or anything in this thread (because I agree that the lvl of proficiency of many puggers I've played with has been far less than adequate) but I have had some excellent pug groups in the last couple of weeks in several different areas.

As my Warrior I led a great pug through Gayala Hatchery mission...they all listened perfectly and played their professions just as well. We saved all five hatchlings and got the Masters reward for the mish.

Have had a few excellent groups in The Deep that have gotten to and killed Kanaxai...this was mostly due to the party leader who's extensive knowledge of that elite mish really made a huge difference but we were successful each time he led.

Have also led (again as my Warrior) several successful Forgemaster runs in FoW.

In general you do get bad groups here and there...they are each bad for their own various reasons. Sometimes people get Error 007 or lag at the wrong time and run haphazardly into an over-agro situation.

Frankly I will always try story based missions with a pug until I get familiar with it and am certain a hench crew will cut the mustard...if I'm lucky I get past it the first time...if not then hey, I have to do it again.

Quests that I get from NPC's I always do with henches just because they do what I tell them dammit!! :P

Hopefully you can find a group of skilled players to adventure with but if not, use henchies or try starting your own groups where you can hand pick the players you will be playing with.

Tzu

The only problem I have with your examples is that Forge Runs, and The Deep are not average missions, they are special areas which are usually populated by 80% intelligent players. Gyala Hatchery, while a normal missions is the THK of Factions so eventually enough people get stuck there that you end up with a group of decent players.

For the record I've gotten Masters twice on that mission. ^_^

However, the general intelligence of players in the normal storyline missions is, well...we have a thread like this every week chronicling the general spiral downward of player apttitude. Nuff said.

Sir Skullcrasher · Jul 13, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

I think player attitude has change how we view PvE aspect of Guild Wars. I mean half the time you either are in a great pug that are helpful and respect you. Or your pug is full of loud mouth badass who think they're better than any one.

Jetdoc · Jul 13, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I have soloed each of the desert missions with my W/Mo without henchmen, so that should tell you that each SHOULD be able to be done with henchmen.

The bonuses are definitely another story, however.

Curse You · Jul 13, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I find PUGs good as long as you know how to filter them.

Examples of bad PUGs:
1. The group has 3 or more Warriors (this usually works, as there are few places where more than 2 warriors are needed)
2. The group has all one type of profession, either all casters or all physical.
3. The group has no monks as of yet. If they haven't managed to find a monk, then how can you expect them to be good? (this only works if the outpost has a good amount of monks)
4. Attitude upon entering the group. If they just yell things like "you MM? becus other necroz sux", I doubt they have much common sense.
5. They're not sure what is going on. Sadly I've seen this before. Half the people, sometimes even the party leader, will be totally confused.

Examples of good PUGs:
1. They have a well balanced profession mixture. (not the best filter)
2. The group has monks or healers of some sort. (still not very good filter)
3. They take time to ask you about your build, figure out what you can contribute and request reasons if your build differs from the one they disire.
4. They plan what they are doing before entering the mission/explorable area.

Not all the best examples, but you get the idea. Some filters work better than others, others almost always work.

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 14, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

I find PUGs good as long as you know how to filter them.

Examples of bad PUGs:
1. The group has 3 or more Warriors (this usually works, as there are few places where more than 2 warriors are needed)
2. The group has all one type of profession, either all casters or all physical.
3. The group has no monks as of yet. If they haven't managed to find a monk, then how can you expect them to be good? (this only works if the outpost has a good amount of monks)
4. Attitude upon entering the group. If they just yell things like "you MM? becus other necroz sux", I doubt they have much common sense.
5. They're not sure what is going on. Sadly I've seen this before. Half the people, sometimes even the party leader, will be totally confused.

Examples of good PUGs:
1. They have a well balanced profession mixture. (not the best filter)
2. The group has monks or healers of some sort. (still not very good filter)
3. They take time to ask you about your build, figure out what you can contribute and request reasons if your build differs from the one they disire.
4. They plan what they are doing before entering the mission/explorable area.

Not all the best examples, but you get the idea. Some filters work better than others, others almost always work.

For bad PUGs, I agree with all but #3. And I'd add;
#6 - They think they need 3 monks.
#7 - They're afraid to use henchie monks when no others are avaliable.
#8 - "gogogogo"

For good PUGs:
#5 - They have a Mesmer in the group. (it doesn't mean that it's a good PUG, but it is a good sign - shows that the party has more than a cookie cutter mentality)
#6 - When you join & say "Hello" other party members actually respond!

natuxatu · Jul 14, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

all i have to say is welcome to the world of online gaming and playing with *gasp* others... though unlike other orpgs you don't really have the options of henchies so i'd be gratefull for that... but yes everyone is frustrated at one point or another.

Clinically Proven · Jul 14, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

I've recently done a bit of Factions pve *shock, gasp*. While I mainly did missions/quests with one or two other friends/guildies and hench, the missions I did do with PuG were surprisingly largely very easy going. People were co-operative and didnt do anything particularly silly and I was even on the American Server!

Perhaps it's just me or perhaps I'm lucky, but I was really surprised given the terrible groups I can remember from my FoW/Ring of Fire days.

KiyaKoreena · Jul 14, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Our guild is happily a PvE only guild and there are several missions that I will only try as a guild group. If we dont have enough that night I would usually wait for another time or take henchies instead of trying to fill with pickups, mainly for the fact my patience level is just too low lately (I hate PUGs the most when I am monking).

Curse You · Jul 14, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

For bad PUGs, I agree with all but #3. And I'd add;
#6 - They think they need 3 monks.
#7 - They're afraid to use henchie monks when no others are avaliable.
#8 - "gogogogo"

For good PUGs:
#5 - They have a Mesmer in the group. (it doesn't mean that it's a good PUG, but it is a good sign - shows that the party has more than a cookie cutter mentality)
#6 - When you join & say "Hello" other party members actually respond!

I was hesitant to add #3, but personally I have had groups where they completely forget to get a monk. Or they don't uninvite people after they have gotten what they want, and so that person ends up accepting (sign of not being too bright).

Almost forgot; I don't quite agree with your #7. Some of these missions you need real monks to even out the occasional dumb action. From my experience, the hench monks do three things: have a "heal delay", wont heal if someone else is moving, and like to drain their energy. As well when you have 2 player monks, if one of them isn't very good, you have some way to blance it out a little.
So hench monks are only good for so much.

striderkaaru · Jul 14, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand of Ruin

it seems without some shiny 15k set or a 100k axe, any good guild will turn their nose at me.

you're looking at the wrong guilds. you might also want to reconsider what you consider a "good guild."

Miyamoto Tzu · Jul 14, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

The only problem I have with your examples is that Forge Runs, and The Deep are not average missions, they are special areas which are usually populated by 80% intelligent players. Gyala Hatchery, while a normal missions is the THK of Factions so eventually enough people get stuck there that you end up with a group of decent players.

I really wish I could agree with you there but unfortunately...80% is extremely generous. If I was 80% successful with adventures in the more elite PvE areas I'd be very happy and have little to criticise...but I'm afraid that's just not the case.

Fact is it only takes one inexperienced player to cause a wipe in these types of areas and you seldom know beforehand if you have a potential Nub-bomb on your team.

When America has Favor, everyone flocks to ToA to go pugging in FoW/UW. Many of those players are skilled veterans as far as those areas are concerned and yet many of them are not. I agree that there are generally more skilled players but I think its more like 60 or 65% with newer players making up the difference.

There are a lot more inexperienced players in the story-based missions however and they are far easier to get grouped with there.

Tzu

NJudson · Jul 14, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

I find PUGs good as long as you know how to filter them.

Examples of bad PUGs:
1. The group has 3 or more Warriors (this usually works, as there are few places where more than 2 warriors are needed)
2. The group has all one type of profession, either all casters or all physical.
3. The group has no monks as of yet. If they haven't managed to find a monk, then how can you expect them to be good? (this only works if the outpost has a good amount of monks)
4. Attitude upon entering the group. If they just yell things like "you MM? becus other necroz sux", I doubt they have much common sense.
5. They're not sure what is going on. Sadly I've seen this before. Half the people, sometimes even the party leader, will be totally confused.

Examples of good PUGs:
1. They have a well balanced profession mixture. (not the best filter)
2. The group has monks or healers of some sort. (still not very good filter)
3. They take time to ask you about your build, figure out what you can contribute and request reasons if your build differs from the one they disire.
4. They plan what they are doing before entering the mission/explorable area.

Not all the best examples, but you get the idea. Some filters work better than others, others almost always work.

I personnally enjoy some of your non-standard PUG. It gets a bit boring with the usual 3 Warriors, 2 Monks, 3 Rangers groups. I like seeing Mesmers and blood or curse necros (so many blasted MM), non-nuker elementalists. Non-standard PUG may not be the good ol' tried and true team builds, but they can be more fun. Unfortunatly these types of groups are very few and far between. It's really hard to get away from the typical cookie cutter teams. Of course, as I am writing this I realize that I myself play a W/Mo, R/Mo, N/Mo and Mo/Me........

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jul 14, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

you're looking at the wrong guilds. you might also want to reconsider what you consider a "good guild."

More specifically, no good guild will deny you access because you don't have the best items. I would recommend posting here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2289

That has always gotten me to good places.

milias · Jul 14, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

To the OP: I don't want to be blunt, but there is a reason why it's called Guild Wars. Most PUG's can't really be trusted to do anything beyond the most basic of maneuvers, or trusted at all. If you find yourself failing the same mission multiple times, it's probably time to reach out to your guildies for some help. Guildies will at least listen. If you're not currently in a guild, it's probably a good idea to find a good one to join asap; otherwise, you can always trust the henchies, at least their behavior is expected...most of the time.

Also you may want to consider why you keep failing certain missions. It may or may not have to do with other people. You may want to look at your own playing style and modify it a bit to see if anything improves.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

EDIT: Oops, didn't see what you said about finding a guild, sorry about that, please ignore what I said about guilds >.<

Dien · Jul 14, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Henchies are the only option if you play pvp a lot you dont want to go newbie groups in pve.